Hacking Humans Goes to the Movies 11.24.22
Ep 12 | 11.24.22

Counterfeit coupons and paybacks.



Kristen Bell: (As Connie Kaminski) Well, you can get one, too. Just write a letter to Cottonelle.

Kirby Howell-baptiste: (As JoJo Johnson) And say what? Dear Cottonelle, your super-soft toilet paper scratched up my ass. 

Dave Bittner: Hello, everyone, and welcome to a special edition of the "Hacking Humans" podcast, an occasional series we call "Hacking Humans Goes to the Movies." I'm Dave Bittner, and joining me is my CyberWire colleague Rick Howard. Hello, Rick. 

Rick Howard: Hey, Dave - glad to be here. 

Dave Bittner: On this show, Rick and I look at some of our favorite clips from cinema and television, clips which demonstrate some of the scams and schemes Joe Carrigan and I talk about over on Hacking Humans. We've got some fun clips to share, so stay tuned. We'll be right back after this message from our show sponsor. 

Dave Bittner: Let me start out, Rick, by asking you this. Have you ever been a couponer (ph)? Are you familiar with couponing? 

Rick Howard: Oh, my goodness. Much to the chagrin of my lovely wife, who - I can't seem to keep coupons straight. I either have them in a drawer and I forget to take them to the grocery store or, you know, I just don't know how to use them at the checkout stand. So I am not a great couponer, Dave... 

Dave Bittner: Yeah. 

Rick Howard: ...As you might guess (laughter). 

Dave Bittner: I remember when I was a kid coming up and I'd go to the grocery store with my mom. And, you know, this is back in the days when my mom was - I think my mom was kind of that last generation of stay-at-home moms when that was the - when more moms were stay-at-home-moms than not, you know, which, of course, is not the case anymore. But my mom had a little, like, box with - like, three-by-five card box that was full of coupons. So we'd walk the aisles at the grocery store, and while we were going, she'd be, you know, going through her little box of coupons, pulling out the things that she had coupons for. 

Rick Howard: (Laughter). 

Dave Bittner: And I don't know what drove which. I don't know if we ended up buying the things that she had coupons for or, you know, using coupons for the things we bought. But anyway, I say all this because my clip this week comes from the 2021 comedy "Queenpins," which is a... 

Rick Howard: Yeah, I remember this. 

Dave Bittner: ...Play off of the word - do you? 

Rick Howard: Yeah. 

Dave Bittner: It's a play off the word kingpins. This is a film starring Kristen Bell and Kirby Howell-Baptiste. And Vince Vaughn is - has a supporting role in this. He's probably the other most well-known person in this film. 

Rick Howard: Yeah. 

Dave Bittner: Kristen Bell plays a woman named Connie Kaminski. And she is a married woman. She's pretty frustrated. She's unemployed. She recently suffered a miscarriage. So things are not going well for her. She's in... 

Rick Howard: This is a comedy. 

Dave Bittner: ...Deep debt. 

Rick Howard: Right, Dave? It's a comedy (laughter). 

Dave Bittner: It actually is. But that's the setup for why - you know, for why she goes down this path. She is deep in debt because her husband and she have been spending a lot of money on fertility treatments. So, of course, suffering the miscarriage is a big setback because they spent a lot of money on this. And also they had - their hopes were high because they had some success of getting pregnant, you know, before the... 

Rick Howard: Sure. 

Dave Bittner: ...Miscarriage. So Connie is an avid user of coupons when she shops. And they have scenes in this film where she's saving hundreds of dollars at the grocery store, so much to the point where she's that person who annoys the checker and everyone else in line behind her because... 

Rick Howard: Oh, yeah. I've seen those people. 

Dave Bittner: ...She has several dozen coupons (laughter). 

Rick Howard: Yeah, I've seen those people. Yeah. 

Dave Bittner: She has several dozen coupons. 

Rick Howard: (Laughter). 

Dave Bittner: And so it just takes forever. So on one particularly bad day, she finds that she got a stale box of breakfast cereal from the store, and she writes the company a letter and - mostly just to vent, to get it off of her chest. And the company sends her a coupon for a free box of cereal. And that is when the lightbulb goes off in her head. She starts writing letters to all kinds of companies to - about all kinds of products that she never actually bought. And the companies send her coupons for free replacement of what she claimed were defective products. So these are coupons... 

Rick Howard: Sounds legit. Sounds legit (laughter). 

Dave Bittner: Well, and these are coupons that are not, like, a dollar off or 50% off. These are coupons for a free whatever it is, right? 

Rick Howard: Yeah. 

Dave Bittner: I'm going to take us on a little side story here because this actually happened to me once. 

Rick Howard: OK. 

Dave Bittner: (Laughter) I don't know if you remember probably 20 years ago, you know, the Scrubbing Bubbles brand? 

Rick Howard: Of course, yeah (laughter). 

Dave Bittner: Yeah. Probably - I mean, that is a well-known brand. I have to say, again, when I was a child, I was disappointed when my mom bought a can of the Scrubbing Bubbles spray, and I couldn't wait for her to use it on the bathtub because I thought... 

Rick Howard: 'Cause you knew. 

Dave Bittner: ...The little animated guys... 

Rick Howard: Yeah (laughter). 

Dave Bittner: ...The little animated guys were going to come out and start scrubbing the tub. And, of course, it was just a foaming spray. And... 

Rick Howard: Oh, no. 

Dave Bittner: ...I learned a little - I lost a little of my innocence that day (laughter). 

Rick Howard: Well, Dave, you - we used Scrubbing Bubbles as a secret code word when I was a second lieutenant in the Army. When everybody was - you know, you'd been in the field for a month and you haven't had a shower and stuff, the... 

Dave Bittner: Yeah. 

Rick Howard: ...Lieutenants would yell - get on the radio and yell Scrubbing Bubbles, Scrubbing Bubbles. And we'd all sneak away to the local shower. So we'd get away from everything. So... 


Dave Bittner: OK. Good to know. So the Scrubbing Bubbles folks - they used to sell this product. It was this gadget that you would hang off of your showerhead... 

Rick Howard: Oh, yeah, yeah. 

Dave Bittner: ...And it had this tank of liquid. And if you put batteries in it and you'd press a button, and at the bottom of this, a little wheel would spin around and it would spray the shower with this cleaning liquid, right? And... 

Rick Howard: Yeah. 

Dave Bittner: ...The idea was that you - you know, you take your shower, and on your way out, you'd hit this button. The shower would get sprayed with this stuff, and then you wouldn't have to worry about stuff like soap scum and, you know, black mold and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, this is a decent gadget. I have learned that it has since been discontinued. You can still buy one new-in-box for a couple hundred dollars on eBay if you want to. I don't - why you would want to for a $20 device, I don't know. 

Rick Howard: Sounds like I need... 

Dave Bittner: But... 

Rick Howard: ...It. Sounds like it. 

Dave Bittner: Yeah, well, I thought I needed one, too. In fact, I thought I needed one for all of my - every single bathroom in my house 20 years ago. And I bought one, and it didn't work. It was just... 

Rick Howard: Oh. 

Dave Bittner: ...DOA right out of the box. 

Rick Howard: I'm shocked. Shocked, I say (laughter). 

Dave Bittner: Yeah. So I want to say I got on the phone with the Scrubbing Bubbles people. This tells you how long ago this was. 

Rick Howard: Yeah. 

Dave Bittner: And I explain. I said, do you want me to ship this back to you? Do you want me to take it back to the store? And they said, no, we will send you a coupon for a replacement. 

Rick Howard: Oh, OK. 

Dave Bittner: And so a couple days later, in the mail, sure enough, I got this very fancy coupon. I remember it was a big coupon. The other thing I remember about it is it had that holographic printing around the edge, you know, the stuff that's really hard... 

Rick Howard: Yeah. 

Dave Bittner: ...To copy. So it had... 

Rick Howard: Yeah. 

Dave Bittner: ...That on it. And then I remember taking it to my local grocery store where I could buy one of these things and going up to the line. And the checker wasn't quite sure what to make of it because... 

Rick Howard: (Laughter). 

Dave Bittner: ...This is a coupon worth $20, right? 

Rick Howard: Yeah. 

Dave Bittner: And so we got in this discussion of like, well, do I have to pay the tax and this, that and the other thing. Anyway... 

Rick Howard: Oh, my God, yeah. 

Dave Bittner: ...Long story short - too late, I know... 

Rick Howard: (Laughter). 

Dave Bittner: ...I got the Scrubbing Bubbles thing replaced, but this is how I learned about these kinds of coupons. So... 

Rick Howard: OK. 

Dave Bittner: ...Back to the movie. 

Rick Howard: Yes. 

Dave Bittner: In the scene I'm going to play here, Connie brings in her friend, JoJo Johnson, who is also struggling financially, and she shows her the collection of high-value coupons that she has collected by writing letters to all of these different companies. And she has all of these coupons laid out on her dining room table. Here's the clip. 


Kristen Bell: (As Connie Kaminski) OK. Don't peek. 

Kirby Howell-baptiste: (As JoJo Johnson) OK. 

Kristen Bell: (As Connie Kaminski) OK. Open. 

Kirby Howell-baptiste: (As JoJo Johnson) What? No, Connie, you told me you wrote that letter because your cereal was stale. 

Kristen Bell: (As Connie Kaminski) Yeah. 

Kirby Howell-baptiste: (As JoJo Johnson) So what - the whole fucking house has gone stale? 

Kristen Bell: (As Connie Kaminski) Not exactly. 

Kirby Howell-baptiste: (As JoJo Johnson) Oh, shit. You have Cottonelle Ultra? 

Kristen Bell: (As Connie Kaminski) Yeah. 

Kirby Howell-baptiste: (As JoJo Johnson) You got 36 family rolls for free. 

Kristen Bell: (As Connie Kaminski) Yeah. 

Kirby Howell-baptiste: (As JoJo Johnson) That coupon's worth, like, 40 bucks. 

Rick Howard: Can I just say I really like Kristen Bell? 


Kristen Bell: (As Connie Kaminski) Well, you can get one, too. Just write a letter to Cottonelle. 

Kirby Howell-baptiste: (As JoJo Johnson) And say what? Dear Cottonelle, your super-soft toilet paper scratched up my ass? Please, they're not going to believe me. 

Rick Howard: (Laughter). 


Kristen Bell: (As Connie Kaminski) Or better yet, just pay me for the coupon. 

Kirby Howell-baptiste: (As JoJo Johnson) OK. 

Kristen Bell: (As Connie Kaminski) Actually, how much would you pay me for this Cottonelle coupon? Would you pay, maybe, half of what it's worth? 

Kirby Howell-baptiste: (As JoJo Johnson) Twenty bucks? Yeah. Why not? 

Kristen Bell: (As Connie Kaminski) So you'd give me 20 bucks for this coupon that I got for free? That's quite a profit. Don't you think? Imagine if we got more of these and we sold them to people for half? That would - that'd be a real business. 

Kirby Howell-baptiste: (As JoJo Johnson) How is that a real business? Even if you wanted to, how would you ever get enough to sell? 

Kristen Bell: (As Connie Kaminski) I think I know where we can get them in bulk. 

Dave Bittner: And so it... 

Rick Howard: The perfect scam. 

Dave Bittner: ...Begins. 

Rick Howard: Yeah. 


Rick Howard: The scam is beginning. 

Dave Bittner: Right. Right. So this sets into motion an elaborate scheme where these two ladies actually head down to Mexico to find where the coupons are being printed. They bribe a worker to smuggle coupons out of the print shop. And they set up an online shop to sell the coupons at a reduced price. So people can buy these coupons. And pretty much, they can pay half price for the stuff they need at the grocery store. The business takes off, and soon the ladies have another problem, which is how to launder all the money that they've made... 

Rick Howard: (Laughter). 

Dave Bittner: ...Because they're just taking in hundreds of thousands of dollars as this thing becomes popular. Eventually, there is a loss prevention agent from a local grocery store who tries to track them down. And he teams up with a postal inspector, who's played by Vince Vaughn. This film... 

Rick Howard: Another one of my favorites. 

Dave Bittner: Yeah? You know, I'm not a real big Vince Vaughn fan. I have to say his popularity eludes me. 


Dave Bittner: I just - I mean, I don't begrudge you, Rick, for liking him. But I just - he just doesn't click with me. So that's, you know... 

Rick Howard: I remember the first time I realized he could act. It was in one of the "Jurassic Park" movie sequels, right? And it was just a little scene where he was telling the captain of the ship that, you know, there's monsters on that island. And I was like, oh... 

Dave Bittner: (Laughter). 

Rick Howard: ...This guy's going to be big, right? I mean... 

Dave Bittner: Right, right. 

Rick Howard: Yeah. So - yeah. 

Dave Bittner: Yeah. So this film is inspired by real-world events. And so inspired means basically, they got the idea and then changed everything. But (laughter)... 

Rick Howard: Sure, yeah (laughter). As you do. 

Dave Bittner: There were - there was actually - there was a team of coupon counterfeiters from around 2010. And they also got rich doing this. And eventually, they got caught. And they went to jail. 

Rick Howard: Oh. 

Dave Bittner: A couple interesting elements to this - from the real part of the story - is that the companies who are being scammed here, who are being scammed out of the counterfeit coupons - they weren't particularly interested in putting a whole lot of effort into tracking these ladies down because from their point of view, they'd rather sweep it under the rug, just have it be a, you know, cost of doing business then shine a light on it. And I wonder how much did they not want people to know... 

Rick Howard: Yeah. 

Dave Bittner: ...Or they - the news coverage that first of all, there are free coupons for the asking if you're a prolific letter writer but also that this - in the age of color photocopiers and color laser printers and Photoshop, it's not that hard to make up counterfeit coupons, you know? 

Rick Howard: It sounds - you know, it sounds very similar to the ransomware decision you had to make. Do you pay the guys off or not, right? And... 

Dave Bittner: Yeah. 

Rick Howard: ...Is it cost of doing business that - you know, or do you try to work through it, right? So it's kind of in a similar vein. 

Dave Bittner: This movie, by the way, did not do well. It made about $1.2 million on a budget of $20 million. 

Rick Howard: Yikes. 

Dave Bittner: So... 

Rick Howard: Yikes. 

Dave Bittner: Yeah, yeah. 

Rick Howard: And it should have - look at - I mean, they had some heavy star power. It should've done well. It had all... 

Dave Bittner: Yeah. 

Rick Howard: ...The makings of it. 

Dave Bittner: It seems like maybe one of those movies you fire up on Amazon or Netflix when you're on a snow day or something, you know? Like... 

Rick Howard: Or when you're doing laundry (laughter). 

Dave Bittner: Yeah, exactly right. Exactly. Entertaining. And I'm sure there are some good laughs, you know... 

Rick Howard: Well... 

Dave Bittner: ...Throughout it - the scenes that I've seen. 

Rick Howard: I watched the trailer. I watched the trailer of this before we did this one, right? And there's a scene where the - I don't know - the local police guy who's really trying to nab these women - all right? - he brings in the SWAT team to break down their house, you know? These guys are all worked up with - you know, we're going to go in. And we're going to take these girls down and blah, blah, blah. And he goes, they're what? They're coupon fraudsters? 

Dave Bittner: (Laughter) Right. 

Rick Howard: Maybe we're going a little too hot. 


Dave Bittner: Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, Rick... 

Rick Howard: So it sounds like it should be good. 

Dave Bittner: Well, the - yes, but the trailer always makes it sound good. 

Rick Howard: Oh, that's true. That is true. 


Dave Bittner: It's the art of the trailer. All right. That is my clip this week. Again, the movie is called "Queenpins." And I believe you can find it on most of the streaming services. Rick, what... 

Rick Howard: Excellent. 

Dave Bittner: ...Do you got for us? 

Rick Howard: All right. So my clip this week comes from the 2003 movie called "Confidence." It's directed by James Foley - probably most famous for the 1992 David Mamet movie "Glengarry Glen Ross" - and starring Ed Burns. And he's probably most famous to our audience for "Saving Private Ryan." And Rachel Weisz, probably most famous to our audience for "The Mummy." And she also played Scarlett Johansson's mom in Marvel's "Black Widow" last year. And by the way, we featured her on Hacking Humans Goes to the Movies a couple of episodes ago when we covered "The Brothers Bloom" a few episodes back. So, you know... 

Dave Bittner: Right. 

Rick Howard: ...Be familiar with that. So the story's about how Ed Burns and his crew pull off a successful long con only to find out later that the money they took belonged to the biggest crime boss in LA, played by Dustin Hoffman. And then Hoffman finds out and presses Burns to pull a bigger con on one of his enemies as a payback. This scene is Burns testing Rachel Weisz on whether or not she is good enough to be part of his crew. Now, remember, she's doing this cold with no prep. And that's why he's testing her. And then one last thing - in the scene, Burns looks like a million dollars. He's fit, well-groomed. And by just looking at him, he gives off the impression that he is swimming in money. So we start with Burns pulling Weisz into a jewelry store. And then on the counter is one of the great that-guy actors, Robert Pine. So run the clip. 

Dave Bittner: All right. 


Edward Burns: (As Jake) What you're looking for in a mark is someone who's got nothing to lose - no friends, no family, no life. You're looking for a guy who doesn't own a rug. Oh, yeah, he's perfect. 

Unidentified Actor #1: (As character) You sure? 

Edward Burns: (As Jake) Yeah, I'm sure. Ashby was the right mark. Now I needed to see if Lily was the right shill. 

Unidentified Actor #2: (As character) Let me read this... 

Edward Burns: (As Jake) So I tested her. 

Unidentified Actor #2: (As character) One watch engraved to Carolyn (ph). Happy graduation, counselor. 

Edward Burns: (As Jake) Alrighty, we're here. 

Unidentified Actor #2: (As character) Love, Mom and Dad. 

Robert Pine: (As Mr. Lewis) Good. 

Edward Burns: (As Jake) Excuse me. I think you have something on hold for me. 

Unidentified Actor #2: (As character) Do you have a ticket? 

Edward Burns: (As Jake) I don't. I lost it. But the name is Hansen. 

Unidentified Actor #2: (As character) OK. 

Edward Burns: (As Jake) Thanks a lot. Mr. Lewis, right? 

Robert Pine: (As Mr. Lewis) Yes? 

Unidentified Actor #2: (As Jake) Yeah, Jake Hansen. I go to law school with your daughter Carolyn. We met a couple times before. 

Robert Pine: (As Mr. Lewis) Oh, of course, Jake. 

Rick Howard: So, Dave, pause it right there. 


Edward Burns: (As Jake) Yeah, yeah. 

Rick Howard: So OK, first thing. Burns claims that he knows Pine. He sells it so completely that Pine, even though he doesn't remember Burns, goes along with the story. So that's kind of, like, the first con going on here. 

Dave Bittner: Do you think he actually met him, or is that totally conning him? 

Rick Howard: Oh, that's totally BS - yeah, total BS. 

Dave Bittner: OK. Got it. Got it. Got it. 

Rick Howard: All right, all right. 

Dave Bittner: OK. 

Rick Howard: So run it. 

Dave Bittner: Good, good. 


Edward Burns: (As Jake Vig) Yeah. Yeah. 

Robert Pine: (As Mr. Lewis) It's good to see you again. 

Edward Burns: (As Jake Vig) It's good to see you, too. You remember Lily. This beautiful woman is my wife. Lily, this is Carolyn's father. 

Rachel Weisz: (As Lily) Oh, nice to meet you. 

Robert Pine: (As Mr. Lewis) Pleasure, I'm sure. So what brings you down from Stanford - taking advantage of the long weekend? 

Edward Burns: (As Jake Vig) Yeah, we're... 

Rachel Weisz: (As Lily) It's our first anniversary. 

Robert Pine: (As Mr. Lewis) Oh, wow, congratulations. That's great. 

Rachel Weisz: (As Lily) Yes. 

Robert Pine: (As Mr. Lewis) Carolyn's down for the weekend, too. 

Rachel Weisz: (As Lily) Really? 

Edward Burns: (As Jake Vig) Is she? 

Robert Pine: (As Mr. Lewis) Yeah. 

Edward Burns: (As Jake Vig) Yeah. Look. Maybe you could do me a favor, then. We split the cost on a couple of books last semester, and I never got an opportunity to pay her back. 

Robert Pine: (As Mr. Lewis) OK. 

Edward Burns: (As Jake Vig) I'll just write you a check. 

Robert Pine: (As Mr. Lewis) Sure. 

Elysia Skye: (As Salesgirl) There's nothing for Hanson. If we had a ticket, I could check the computer. 

Edward Burns: (As Jake Vig) But yesterday my wallet and my wife's purse were stolen, and the ticket was in my wallet. Maybe you could just check again. 

Robert Pine: (As Mr. Lewis) Jesus. Where did this happen? 

Rachel Weisz: (As Lily) Well, we're staying at The Peninsula, and I think it might have been the housekeeping staff. But Jake has a little more faith in humanity than I do. 

Robert Pine: (As Mr. Lewis, laughter). 

Rachel Weisz: (As Lily) He hates me saying it, but I think it's true. 

Robert Pine: (As Mr. Lewis, laughter). Well, you have to be so careful these days. 

Rachel Weisz: (As Lily) You sure do. Honey, I'm just going to go and pick out a wallet. 

Edward Burns: (As Jake Vig) OK. 

Rachel Weisz: (As Lily) It was nice to meet you. 

Robert Pine: (As Mr. Lewis) Nice to meet you. 

Elysia Skye: (As Salesgirl) Here you are, Mr. Lewis. 

Robert Pine: (As Mr. Lewis) Good. 

Elysia Skye: (As Salesgirl) I'm sorry, sir - still nothing. 

Edward Burns: (As Jake Vig) Really? 

Elysia Skye: (As Salesgirl) May I ask what it was? 

Edward Burns: (As Jake Vig) Yeah. It's a shame. It was a pair of diamond earrings. You know, actually, it's just like those. 

Elysia Skye: (As Salesgirl) We have those in stock. 

Edward Burns: (As Jake Vig) Oh, great. Well, let me write you a check and... 

Elysia Skye: (As Salesgirl) Only with proper ID. 

Edward Burns: (As Jake Vig) Yeah, no. I understand that. But like I just explained to you, my wallet was - OK, this is sort of a very special day for my wife and I, it being our first anniversary. And... 

Rick Howard: Dave, pause it there. 

Dave Bittner: All right. 


Edward Burns: (As Jake Vig) She needs me to pick up something for my... 

Rick Howard: So, OK. Watching this is so painful. All right, Burns is showing how embarrassed he is that he can't pay for this item, and he just milks the pain. And the that-guy actor, Pine - he is vicariously soaking it all in, right? And so I could - that's how the con is working. I just love it. All right. Keep rolling. 

Dave Bittner: Yeah. The other thing that... 

Rick Howard: Yeah. 

Dave Bittner: ...Strikes me here is how he establishes rapport with the other guy by saying, can I write you a check for these books? 

Rick Howard: Yeah. 

Dave Bittner: You know, I never got to pay your daughter back. But I'm such a good guy. You know, I could have gotten away... 

Rick Howard: Yeah. 

Dave Bittner: ...With that. But let me write you a check right now. And so... 

Rick Howard: Yeah, and... 

Dave Bittner: That, of course, builds trust with the father. 

Rick Howard: And the other one, too, is she tells the that-guy actor that, you know, she thought it was the housing staff that stole the wallet, right? And he - you know, her husband doesn't like to think that way, that people are generally good. It builds him... 

Dave Bittner: Right. 

Rick Howard: ...Up in his eyes, right? So, you know... 

Dave Bittner: Right. 

Rick Howard: Little subtle touches there. Yeah. 

Dave Bittner: He's the good guy. Yeah. 

Rick Howard: He's the good guy - exactly right. 

Dave Bittner: Yeah. All right. 


Edward Burns: (As Jake Vig) Well, she thinks we're here to pick up something for my mother, but I wanted to surprise her with something special. So do you think you could make an exception today, I mean, just this one time? 

Elysia Skye: (As Salesgirl) I'm sorry. 

Edward Burns: (As Jake Vig) Thank you. Please tell Carolyn that I said hello, and pass that on to her. 

Robert Pine: (As Mr. Lewis) I sure will. 

Edward Burns: (As Jake Vig) Of course. It was good to see you again. 

Robert Pine: (As Mr. Lewis) Good to see you. Look, Jake. Why don't you write me a check and let me put the earrings on my credit card? That all right with you? 

Edward Burns: (As Jake Vig) If you would be willing to do that, that would be great. 

Robert Pine: (As Mr. Lewis) Good. Please. 

Rick Howard: And the hook is set. 


Dave Bittner: I love it. I love it. So this guy - the father is going to pay for the diamond earrings. The guy's going to write him a bouncy, bouncy check. 

Rick Howard: Yep. 

Dave Bittner: And... 

Rick Howard: By the way, the bouncy, bouncy check also for the textbooks that are nonexistent... 

Dave Bittner: Right. 

Rick Howard: So... 

Dave Bittner: Right. 

Rick Howard: Yeah (laughter). 

Dave Bittner: Right. Now, what do we think about - do we know about the pretext here about how - I mean, do we - did this guy actually know this guy's daughter? Or was that just some research he did, or... 

Rick Howard: No. It was... 

Dave Bittner: Any idea? 

Rick Howard: This was totally on the fly, all right? He made it up on - which - I really love that about this particular scene. Remember; I said at the beginning he's testing Rachel Weisz on whether or not she's good enough to be part of his crew, right? 

Dave Bittner: Right. 

Rick Howard: So this is a test. So he just made this up and totally reacting to the situation as it unfolds, right? And... 

Dave Bittner: Wow. 

Rick Howard: So I kind of like that, yeah. And by the way, it's such a simple scam, right? It's - if it works, it simply goes in, recognizes the guy, talks him up, fakes like he knows him. And then, you know, in 15 minutes, he's walking out the door with money, all right? So I really like that. 

Dave Bittner: Yeah, absolutely. All right, what's the name of the movie there again, Rick? 

Rick Howard: The movie's called "Confidence," and it came out in 2003. 

Dave Bittner: All right. Well, check it out. 

Dave Bittner: All right. Well, that is our show. We want to thank all of you for listening. The "Hacking Humans" podcast is proudly produced in Maryland at the startup studios of DataTribe, where they're co-building the next generation of cybersecurity teams and technologies. Our senior producer is Jennifer Eiben. Our executive editor is Peter Kilpe. I'm Dave Bittner. 

Rick Howard: And I'm Rick Howard. 

Dave Bittner: Thanks for listening.