Keeping the scams in the family.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE LADY EVE")

Barbara Stanwyck: (As Jean Harrington) You don't think he minds, do you? Father loves to lose. 

Dave Bittner: Hello, everyone, and welcome to a special edition of the "Hacking Humans" podcast, an occasional series we call Hacking Humans Goes to the Movies. I'm Dave Bittner, and joining me is my CyberWire colleague, Rick Howard. Hello, Rick. 

Rick Howard: Hey, Dave. Glad to be here. 

Dave Bittner: On this show, Rick and I look at some of our favorite clips from cinema and television, clips which demonstrate some of the scams and schemes that Joe Carrigan and I talk about on the "Hacking Humans" podcast. We've got some fun clips to share this week, so stay tuned. We'll be right back after this message from our show's sponsor. 

Dave Bittner: All right, Rick. You know, you and I both have a hoot doing this show (laughter). 

Rick Howard: I know. I can't... 

Dave Bittner: Part of... 

Rick Howard: ...Believe they let us do this, Dave. It's fantastic. 

Dave Bittner: Part of the fun is gathering up these clips and just the breadth of stuff that's out there from the long history of cinema and television and all that kind of stuff. You got a great clip this week, and this one goes way back. 

Rick Howard: Way back. We got in the Wayback Machine for this one, right? It's the... 

Dave Bittner: Yeah. 

Rick Howard: ...1941 movie called "Lady Eve." It's directed by Preston Sturges. And he was this prolific writer of movies from the 1930s through the 1950s. And it stars Barbara Stanwyck, and she's a four-time Oscar nominee and probably most famous for her film noir - I can't even say that - film noir performance in the 1944 movie "Double Indemnity." Have you ever seen that movie, Dave? 

Dave Bittner: Oh, yeah. Yeah. 

Rick Howard: Oh, it's good. 

Dave Bittner: She's wonderful in everything she's in. 

Rick Howard: She's great in this, too. I had forgotten how great an actress she is. She's - her co-star is Henry Fonda, Oscar award-winner himself, but most famous, probably, for his performances in "The Grapes of Wrath" and "12 Angry Men," and also being Jane Fonda's dad, OK? And... 

Dave Bittner: (Laughter) Right, right. 

Rick Howard: There's the third... 

Dave Bittner: There's that. 

Rick Howard: Yeah. Just - there's that, right? And then there's a third actor in the scene, Charles Coburn. He's another Oscar award-winner. So in "Lady Eve," Stanwyck is the daughter to Coburn, and they're professional hustlers. And in this scene, they've been trolling a cruise ship, traveling from South America to New York City, looking for victims. And they capture Ford. Now, he's an extremely wealthy son of an international beer company owner, and they talk him into a friendly game of poker. But as is the case with these 1940s screwball comedies, Stanwyck has fallen in love with Ford and is trying to prevent her father from stealing Ford's money. Now, I like this scene for two reasons, right? 

Dave Bittner: Yeah. 

Rick Howard: First is that it shows how a card hustler, Coburn, is able to sneak card decks into the game that are advantageous to him. In a previous scene that we're not going to show here, we see him loading up with different decks by hiding them in secret pockets in his jacket. So we're going to be talking about that, right? 

Dave Bittner: OK. 

Rick Howard: And the second is that Stanwyck, by knowing her dad and how her dad operates, she's trying to sabotage his play without revealing to Ford that her dad is a card shark. So let's start this thing up. 

Dave Bittner: Well, before we dig in, Rick, let's... 

Rick Howard: OK. 

Dave Bittner: ...Set the scene here, because it really is a delightfully old-timey sort of... 

Rick Howard: Oh, yeah. 

Dave Bittner: ...Thing here. I mean, what - where are they, and how are they dressed? 

Rick Howard: They are - oh, yeah, that's a good point. They are dressed to the nines. They're in the cruise ship, right? They're in a - like, a dinner area, and they've got a little corner off to themselves. It's three of them at a table, and they're playing cards. 

Dave Bittner: Yeah, and they're wearing tuxedos (laughter). 

Rick Howard: Yeah, they look good. OK. I will say. 

Dave Bittner: They do. Also, the film is in black and white, which also gives it some of that... 

Rick Howard: Little glamour. 

Dave Bittner: ...Classic, old-timey feel. 

Rick Howard: Yeah. 

Dave Bittner: Yeah. 

Rick Howard: Yeah, yeah. 

Dave Bittner: All right, let's roll the clip. 

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE LADY EVE") 

Henry Fonda: (As Charles Pike) Well, I haven't been quite as lucky tonight as usual, have I? 

Barbara Stanwyck: (As Jean) You don't know how lucky you've been. The colonel has been drawing wonderful cards. I believe it's my deal. 

Charles Coburn: (As Colonel Harrington) I'm sorry. I guess I haven't got my mind on the game. 

Barbara Stanwyck: (As Jean) I noticed that. How much are you behind? 

Henry Fonda: (As Charles Pike) Oh, about $3,000. 

Dave Bittner: He deals the cards. 

Rick Howard: Yeah. I love the music. 

Dave Bittner: Yeah. So the father looks at his hand of cards, and what does he have? He's got nothing. 

Rick Howard: Nothing, nothing. 

Dave Bittner: 'Cause there's a Jack, a nine, a five, a two. It's a lousy hand. 

Rick Howard: Right. 

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE LADY EVE") 

Charles Coburn: (As Colonel Harrington) Well, well, well, you've given me a good hand at last. 

Barbara Stanwyck: (As Jean) I'm glad you like it. 

Rick Howard: Bluffing. 

(LAUGHTER) 

Dave Bittner: So Ford looks at his cards, as you said, four queens. 

Rick Howard: Four queens, yeah. 

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE LADY EVE") 

Henry Fonda: (As Charles Pike) Well, you'll have to be pretty good to beat me, sir. I'll open for a hundred. 

Charles Coburn: (As Colonel Harrington) Nevertheless, I'll raise you a hundred. 

Barbara Stanwyck: (As Jean) Too good for me. 

Henry Fonda: (As Charles Pike) I'm afraid I'll have to raise you a hundred. 

Charles Coburn: (As Colonel Harrington) Well, you must have something pretty good. Still - (coughing). 

Rick Howard: All right. Pause it there, Dave. 

Dave Bittner: Yeah. 

Rick Howard: All right. So right there, Coburn fakes a small cough, reaches for his hankie and replaces his bad hand with a good hand. And after he does this, he's going to have four kings in his hand. 

Dave Bittner: OK. 

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE LADY EVE") 

Charles Coburn: (As Colonel Harrington) Still, I'll raise you a hundred. 

Henry Fonda: (As Charles Pike) I'm sorry to see you lose your money, sir, but I can't let that challenge go unanswered. And a hundred. 

Charles Coburn: (As Colonel Harrington) You're making me very nervous, but I must raise you 200. 

Henry Fonda: (As Charles Pike) Pike doesn't know the meaning of the word fear. And a hundred. 

Charles Coburn: (As Colonel Harrington) Well, Harrington doesn't know the meaning of the word defeat. And 200. What are you doing? 

Rick Howard: All right, pause it there. Pause it there. All right, so Stanwyck has reached into Coburn's cards that were sitting on the table - all right? - claiming that she thinks she misdealt. But in reality, she switches Coburn's four kings with another bad hand (laughter). 

Dave Bittner: Right. And so she's - I mean, this is her dad, right? 

Rick Howard: This is her dad, yes. 

Dave Bittner: OK. 

Rick Howard: So she knows how he operates, right? And so she's going to make sure he doesn't be successful. 

Dave Bittner: OK. She's also a card shark. Like, obviously, she does all this under - without anybody seeing it. Yeah. All right. Here we go. 

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE LADY EVE") 

Charles Coburn: (As Colonel Harrington) Far from it, my little minx. 

Rick Howard: So there he has no - nothing in his hand. 

Dave Bittner: So he's got lousy cards. 

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE LADY EVE") 

Henry Fonda: (As Charles Pike) And a hundred. 

Charles Coburn: (As Colonel Harrington) Gracious. I wonder if I have enough money with me. 

Rick Howard: All right. So pause it there. So Coburn reaches in for his wallet, claiming that he has to see if he has enough money to keep going. But in reality, he's swapping in another better hand, this time four aces. (Laughter) I love it. 

Dave Bittner: Right. So Coburn has placed good sets of - good hands of cards all over his person. 

Rick Howard: All over, yeah. 

Dave Bittner: OK. 

Rick Howard: He's ready for any eventuality. 

Rick Howard: Right. And now - and he's got four aces now. 

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE LADY EVE") 

Charles Coburn: (As Colonel Harrington) Oh, yes, plenty, plenty. I'll raise you a thousand. 

Henry Fonda: (As Charles Pike) I don't want to win so much from you, but I'll call it just to show you how hopeless it is. 

Barbara Stanwyck: (As Jean) Cards? 

Henry Fonda: (As Charles Pike) Not unless you have another queen, which I doubt. 

Barbara Stanwyck: (As Jean) I'll see what I can do. 

Rick Howard: All right, pause it there. All right. Here's what she does. This is the coup de grace, Dave. 

Dave Bittner: Yeah. Yes. 

Rick Howard: Yeah. Stanwyck shows the next card in the deck, which she shouldn't do. It's the fifth ace, all right? So that means Coburn can't show his hands because he'll blow the whole thing. 

Dave Bittner: So he has four aces and she has a fifth ace, which is impossible, right? 

Rick Howard: It's impossible. 

Dave Bittner: A deck of card should have - so the jig is up for the father. 

Rick Howard: Yeah. If he claims to win the hand, they're going to call it a misdeal because there's five aces on the table. 

Dave Bittner: I see. All right. 

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE LADY EVE") 

Barbara Stanwyck: (As Jean) I thought at least one of you had four aces. 

Henry Fonda: (As Charles Pike) I'll check my four queens. Sir, what have you? 

Charles Coburn: (As Colonel Harrington) I regret to say that I was bluffing. 

Rick Howard: So he faults. 

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE LADY EVE") 

Charles Coburn: (As Harrington) It would be a shame of showing you on what. 

Dave Bittner: Right. So, yeah. Explain what he just did there. 

Rick Howard: So he realizes that she's got him - OK? - that he can't show his hand. So he says I was bluffing, and he refuses to show his hand to Ford and loses all that money that's on the table. 

Dave Bittner: All right. 

Rick Howard: So let's talk about this for a second. He tries two tricks to get better hands, which he's successful at. His daughter foils him in every case - right? - and then eventually lets Ford win, who is oblivious to everything going on at the table. 

Dave Bittner: Yeah. No idea that all of this family intrigue is happening right next to him. 

Rick Howard: It's fantastic. I love it. 

Dave Bittner: All right. Let's watch the rest of the clip. 

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE LADY EVE") 

Charles Coburn: (As Colonel Harrington) It would be a shame of showing you on what. 

Henry Fonda: (As Charles Pike) Say, I'm embarrassed. Maybe I should have laid my cards down. 

Barbara Stanwyck: (As Jean) You don't think he minds, do you? Father loves to lose. 

(LAUGHTER) 

Rick Howard: I'm sure he does. 

Dave Bittner: Oh, man. I love these old movies. They're just delightful. 

Rick Howard: The '40s screwball comedies, I'll watch them all the time because they're just mindless but fun and lightweight and just entertaining, so... 

Dave Bittner: Yeah. You know, after I watched this clip, I was curious. I went and looked up - because at the beginning of the clip, Henry Fonda says that he's down about $2,000. 

Rick Howard: Yeah, yeah. 

Dave Bittner: Two thousand dollars in 1940 is about $40,000 now. 

Rick Howard: (Laughter). 

Dave Bittner: OK? So when these guys are putting $100 bets down, that's a lot of money. 

Rick Howard: There's some money there. 

Dave Bittner: Yeah, it's, like, two grand. 

Rick Howard: Yeah. There's a - there's another scene later where they're playing again, and they're throwing $30,000 around, all right? So it's like, gee, those are wealthy people. And that's what the '40s movies were. They were about, you know, the poor people being able to watch what the wealthy set is doing and trying and getting some entertainment out of that, and I think that's why they did so well. 

Dave Bittner: Right. Right. Oh, I miss the days of going out in your tuxedo, your evening jacket, your, you know... 

(LAUGHTER) 

Dave Bittner: Nowadays we're lucky if we go out in a clean T-shirt, right? 

Rick Howard: I was going to say, since the pandemic, I'm lucky to have pants on, all right? So... 

Dave Bittner: Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, that is a good clip. And we will have a link to the YouTube version of that clip in the show notes. So we hope that you'll check it out. Also, fun to watch along while you listen to the show. So maybe you want to do that, as well. 

Rick Howard: Sure. 

Dave Bittner: My clip this week comes from the hit TV show "Better Call Saul." 

Rick Howard: Yeah. 

Dave Bittner: Rick, have you watched this series? 

Rick Howard: I have not watched it all the way through. So I'm still - hold me for spoilers, but yeah, I love it, just love it. 

Dave Bittner: OK. Yeah. So the show "Better Call Saul" is a spinoff from the show "Breaking Bad." Bob Odenkirk plays a slimy lawyer named Saul Goodman. And... 

Rick Howard: So well. 

Dave Bittner: ...In "Better Call Saul" - he's perfect in the role. In "Better Call Saul," we see the origin role of the Saul Goodman character, whose real name is Jimmy McGill. And he starts off in this series as a small-time con man. In fact, he has the nickname Slippin' Jimmy because he uses slip-and-fall injuries to scam property owners out of their money. In this series, we follow Jimmy as he sets his sights on becoming a lawyer. And part of that is he wants to impress his older brother, who is played by the great Michael McKean, who you probably know as - he was Lenny on "Laverne & Shirley" with Lenny and Squiggy. He was also David St. Hubbins in "This Is Spinal Tap," one of, you know, my all time... 

Rick Howard: Classic. 

Dave Bittner: ...Favorite movies. Yeah. So much of this show centers on Jimmy's desire to go straight and be a legit lawyer, but he just can't resist the pull towards the thrill of the scam, right? So in this scene, Jimmy is driving his car through a residential neighborhood, and he's talking on his phone when he comes around the corner and seemingly... 

Rick Howard: A car. Really, it's almost a car. It's a jalopy - beat up, really crappy car. 

Dave Bittner: (Laughter) Right. It is a beater car. 

Rick Howard: (Laughter). 

Dave Bittner: It's like the old, you know, lowest end, entry level, stripped-down Kia that there is. 

Rick Howard: (Laughter) Exactly right. 

Dave Bittner: That's a good point. So he comes around the corner, and he seemingly T-bones a teenage kid who is out skateboarding in the neighborhood. And in this scene, the kid, who I said - he's a skateboarder. He's wearing full protective gear. He bounces off of Jimmy's windshield and onto the ground. And then... 

Rick Howard: Cracks a windshield. 

Dave Bittner: ...He's joined - yeah, cracks the windshield. And then he's joined by another skateboarder who claims to be his brother. Let's watch the clip. 

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "BETTER CALL SAUL") 

Bob Odenkirk: (As Jimmy McGill) Well, run it again. Well, no, no, no. It's paid up. Run it again. Oh. 

Rick Howard: There he goes. 

Dave Bittner: Yeah, he hit the windshield. 

Rick Howard: And all the way across, OK? That's a good one. 

Dave Bittner: Jimmy gets out of the car. And the guy's on the ground. The other guy comes up. 

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "BETTER CALL SAUL") 

Unidentified Actor #1: (As character) Look at me. 

Rick Howard: And at this point, he's worried that he's hurt this guy. 

Dave Bittner: Right. Right. 

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "BETTER CALL SAUL") 

Bob Odenkirk: (As Jimmy McGill) I didn't... 

Unidentified Actor #1: (As character) What did you do to my brother? Why didn't you look where you're going? 

Bob Odenkirk: (As Jimmy McGill) I was making a turn. He came out of nowhere. 

Unidentified Actor #1: (As character) You freaking hit him, man. You ran over my brother. I'm going to get the whole thing on video. 

Unidentified Actor #2: (As character) It's an accident. It was an accident. He didn't mean to. (Screams). It's broke. It's my leg. 

Unidentified Actor #1: (As character) You broke his leg? 

Rick Howard: He amps it up a little bit there. 

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "BETTER CALL SAUL") 

Unidentified Actor #1: (As character) ...Driving around breaking people's legs? 

Bob Odenkirk: (As Jimmy McGill) OK, OK, OK. 

Unidentified Actor #1: (As character) Somebody call the cops. 

Bob Odenkirk: (As Jimmy McGill) Don't call the police. 

Unidentified Actor #1: (As character) Police. 

Bob Odenkirk: (As Jimmy McGill) Don't call the police. Don't call the police. Don't... 

Unidentified Actor #1: (As character) I'll call them myself. 

Bob Odenkirk: (As Jimmy McGill) Don't call them. 

Unidentified Actor #1: (As character) I'm doing it myself. 

Bob Odenkirk: (As Jimmy McGill) Don't call the police. Don't call the police. 

Unidentified Actor #1: (As character) Don't call the cops? 

Bob Odenkirk: (As Jimmy McGill) No. 

Unidentified Actor #1: (As character) How are you going to fix this? What are you going to do to make things right? 

Rick Howard: I love that look. When he figures it out. 

Dave Bittner: Lightbulb goes off. 

Rick Howard: Yeah. 

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "BETTER CALL SAUL") 

Bob Odenkirk: (As Jimmy McGill) What can I do to make it right? 

Rick Howard: Now he's playing them. 

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "BETTER CALL SAUL") 

Bob Odenkirk: (As Jimmy McGill) I don't know. 

Unidentified Actor #1: (As character) Five hundred dollars. 

Bob Odenkirk: (As Jimmy McGill) Five hundred bucks? 

Unidentified Actor #2: (As character) Ow. What the hell? 

Dave Bittner: He starts kicking the guy on the ground. 

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "BETTER CALL SAUL") 

Bob Odenkirk: (As Jimmy McGill) I'm going to give you a 9.6. 

Rick Howard: Kicks him right where his broken leg was supposed to be. 

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "BETTER CALL SAUL") 

Bob Odenkirk: (As Jimmy McGill) I'm a lawyer. Furthermore, does THIS steaming pile of crap scream payday to you, huh? The only way that entire car is worth 500 bucks is if there's a $300 hooker sitting in it. Let's talk about what you owe me for the windshield. 

Dave Bittner: The two guys run off. 

Rick Howard: And they run. 

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "BETTER CALL SAUL") 

Bob Odenkirk: (As Jimmy McGill) I'll take a check. 

Rick Howard: So I love this because there is a part where Odenkirk is believing the scam. And then he goes, oh, this is what I do for a living. And he just flips on them, right? I just, I love that part. 

Dave Bittner: Yeah, yeah. No, you can just see the light bulb go off in his head. 

Rick Howard: Yeah. 

Dave Bittner: But the great fun of this is trying to see - you know, there's that old saying, don't BS a BSer. 

Rick Howard: Yeah. 

Dave Bittner: And that's what's going on here - is these guys are trying to pull the same kind of low-level scam that Jimmy did when he was a kid. 

Rick Howard: Yeah. 

Dave Bittner: And at first, he falls for it, right? 

Rick Howard: For sure he did. Yeah. Yeah. 

Dave Bittner: Yeah. 

Rick Howard: And I love his reaction to it is - when he figures it out, he kicks his leg. He kicks the guy's leg that's supposed to be broken, right? So that'll prove it. (Laughter). 

Dave Bittner: Right, right. All right, well, those are our clips for this week. Again, we will have links to the YouTube clips in our show notes. We hope you will check those out. 

Dave Bittner: That is our show. We want to thank all of you for listening. We want to thank the Johns Hopkins University Information Security Institute for their participation. You can learn more at isi.jhu.edu. The "Hacking Humans" podcast is proudly produced in Maryland at the startup studios of DataTribe, where they're co-building the next generation of cybersecurity teams and technologies. Our senior producer is Jennifer Eiben. Our executive editor is Peter Kilpe. I'm Dave Bittner. 

Rick Howard: And I'm Rick Howard. 

Dave Bittner: Thanks for listening.