It’s all glitter, no gold.
[ Music ]
Dave Bittner: Hello, everyone, and welcome to N2K CyberWire's "Hacking Humans" podcast where each week we look behind the social engineering scams, phishing schemes, and criminal exploits that are making headlines and taking a heavy toll on organizations around the world. I'm Dave Bittner and joining me is Joe Carrigan. Hey there, Joe.
Joe Carrigan: Hi, Dave.
Dave Bittner: And our N2K colleague and host of the "T-Minus Space Daily" podcast, Maria Varmazis. Maria.
Maria Varmazis: Hi, Dave. And hi Joe.
Dave Bittner: We've got some good stories to share this week. Let's jump right in here. We're going to start off with some follow up. Joe, you want to do the honors?
Joe Carrigan: Yeah. So last week I teased that I was going to put a link out on Facebook or post on Facebook a public post saying that I was looking for some baseball tickets.
Dave Bittner: Oh yeah. You know what? I realized after we finished the show that we never swung back around to that.
Joe Carrigan: We didn't. I got no traction on that, believe it or not. I mean the scammers must go, "Oh, that's Joe Carrigan from "Hacking Humans." We're not falling for that, Joe."
Maria Varmazis: The honey pot. Don't do it.
Joe Carrigan: Yeah. It's a honey pot. Right. I will say this. Super listener Chad got it right out of the gate, knew exactly what I was doing. Commented this, "This will bring the scammers out."
Dave Bittner: Okay. All right.
Joe Carrigan: And another Tammy said, "I got some baseball tickets to my son's little league game if you want to go."
Dave Bittner: All right.
Joe Carrigan: So -- so yeah. Nothing happened with me. I tried as hard as I could to get these scammers to come out of the woodwork and they did not. They disappointed me, Dave.
Dave Bittner: Did not take the bait.
Joe Carrigan: Right.
Dave Bittner: Okay.
Joe Carrigan: Also last week I --
Maria Varmazis: We need different bait.
Joe Carrigan: Yeah. I don't know. Maybe I should go with concert tickets. Hey, I'm looking for Taylor Swift tickets.
Maria Varmazis: There you go. Yeah.
Joe Carrigan: Everybody who knows me knows that I am not interested in going to a Taylor Swift concert.
Dave Bittner: Right.
Maria Varmazis: Then everyone's going to comment, "Joe, have you been hacked?"
Joe Carrigan: Right. Yeah.
Dave Bittner: Oh my god. Joe's dead.
Joe Carrigan: He said he'd go see Taylor Swift over his dead body. Must have happened.
Dave Bittner: Yeah.
Joe Carrigan: No. I don't know what I'm going to do. Maybe I'll try something else. I don't know. I'm kind of tired of putting myself out there. But for the scammers.
Dave Bittner: Fair enough.
Maria Varmazis: Okay. All right.
Joe Carrigan: Also I mentioned last week that my son is excellent at rickrolling people and he got me over that -- over the weekend after we recorded this with a fourth of July rickroll. The fourth of July. It was like a firework and the guy is putting a can over top of a large firecracker he's put and then he's like, "Nothing happened. Nothing happened. Nothing happened." And then he walks up to the can and of course you're watching. It's like, "Oh no. No. No. Don't do that. Don't do that." And then he picks the can up and it's Rick Astley in the can rickrolling you. And I was like --
Maria Varmazis: Dang.
Joe Carrigan: And I was like not even mad. That was pretty good.
Dave Bittner: Well played.
Joe Carrigan: Well played, son.
Dave Bittner: Well played.
Joe Carrigan: But he got me again with it.
Dave Bittner: I hate those things. I fall for the one -- the ones that I hate the most because, as I've pointed out here many times, I have a hair trigger startle reflex, and so it's the one where like they're like, "Turn up the volume."
Joe Carrigan: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Volume up. That's always --
Dave Bittner: There's a couple of little like ducks swimming in a pond or something.
Joe Carrigan: That's the mute button for me.
Dave Bittner: Yeah. And I lean in and then some big scary face jumps up and screams and I of course am now dangling from the ceiling by my fingertips.
Joe Carrigan: Right. Need to go change your pants.
Maria Varmazis: Yep. I think there's a generation of us who grew up with that and now we know -- I don't know. Want to get to on the show, but those of us who were burned by goatse and the like we get this part.
Dave Bittner: Wow. You went to the nuclear option. Didn't you there, Maria?
Maria Varmazis: Well, honestly when you're like --
Joe Carrigan: I was thinking maybe a little maze with the zombie face or the -- it's not zombies. From "The Exorcist."
Maria Varmazis: Honestly I think I was like a freshman in high school when I was exposed to that at first which is too young. But you learn.
Dave Bittner: Little Maria learned a lesson that day.
Maria Varmazis: Oh did she ever. Did she ever.
Dave Bittner: I had a neighbor who had --
Joe Carrigan: Don't Google that, by the way. Please don't. You will regret it.
Dave Bittner: I had a neighbor who honest to God has the license plate goatse, Maryland license plate goatse.
Joe Carrigan: You know, I had a friend who --
Maria Varmazis: How did that get past the -- oh. You know what? I don't want to know. You know I don't want to know.
Joe Carrigan: I had -- I've seen two -- heard two stories about this. One that didn't get by. It was a friend of mine who played high school football and his jersey number was 69 and they would not let him --
Dave Bittner: Oh course. Was he a lineman?
Joe Carrigan: I think so.
Dave Bittner: Of course he was.
Joe Carrigan: I don't know what he did. But they -- he wanted something on his plate that commemorated that. And the state said no. Can't do that. And then I saw a -- somebody driving with a license plate that said karma spelled with three Ks. And I was wondering how that got through the censors.
Dave Bittner: Yeah. That's bad.
Joe Carrigan: Because they do censor the license plates here in Maryland.
Dave Bittner: Yeah and I -- but I wonder like to what degree is the censorship complaint driven.
Joe Carrigan: Right.
Dave Bittner: Right? Because I know they will revoke a license plate if they get a complaint about it.
Joe Carrigan: Really?
Dave Bittner: Yeah. Yeah. Or so I've heard. So.
Joe Carrigan: I have to find out who has complained about that and then I'm going to go out and get it.
Maria Varmazis: Because you want it.
Joe Carrigan: I want it. Right.
Maria Varmazis: For years I wanted to get a Tardis license plate, vanity plate, in Mass like with a blue car. Tardis. But then somebody got to it before me. I was really mad.
Dave Bittner: Got you. Got you.
Joe Carrigan: I have an idea for a vanity tag, but I'm not going to tell anybody what it is until I -- until I actually have it.
Dave Bittner: Okay.
Maria Varmazis: Is it chicken related?
Joe Carrigan: No. It is not.
Maria Varmazis: Okay.
Joe Carrigan: But we should give you a chicken update.
Dave Bittner: Okay.
Joe Carrigan: Chickens are in the coop. They're outside.
Dave Bittner: Oh. Congratulations.
Joe Carrigan: And I have some interesting things that we've learned about the chickens, about chickens in general. Apparently sunset is like the power button for chickens. They just shut down. They just -- I mean if they're outside and it gets dark they just sit down and go to sleep. That's it.
Maria Varmazis: Is this a bird thing? Because that's when people put like the sheet over a canary cage. My grandmother used to do that with her canaries.
Joe Carrigan: My daughter was doing a presentation at work and she brought a couple of the chickens in because she's actually they had like these -- all the --
Maria Varmazis: It's like show and tell day at work.
Joe Carrigan: Right. Show and tell day at work and she's like --
Maria Varmazis: So much chicken lore on this show.
Joe Carrigan: I'm going to be automating my chicken coop and, you know, she works in the same field as I do, but she does industrial control systems.
Dave Bittner: Okay.
Joe Carrigan: So she's like, "Well, I know how to do this. I can make an industrial control system that will automate everything in my chicken coop."
Dave Bittner: Right.
Joe Carrigan: And that's what she's going to do.
Dave Bittner: Okay.
Maria Varmazis: That's awesome.
Joe Carrigan: It is awesome.
Maria Varmazis: I love that.
Joe Carrigan: I can't wait to see how it comes out.
Maria Varmazis: Yeah.
Joe Carrigan: Yeah. So, you know, she and I have had many discussions about design, many design discussions. One where she's gotten angry at me because I wrote code on an Arduino for something that could have just been done with a wire and that really irritated her.
Maria Varmazis: You've over engineered it, Dad.
Joe Carrigan: Yeah.
Dave Bittner: Over thinking something, Joe? You?
Joe Carrigan: The guy that tried to change the light socket because he thought the light socket was going bad. It just needed a new light bulb.
Dave Bittner: Yeah.
Joe Carrigan: I literally did that one.
Maria Varmazis: Yep. I have stopped my husband from doing that. He's probably hating that I've mentioned that.
Dave Bittner: Have you tried a new light bulb? Poor suffering Lisa.
Joe Carrigan: Yes. She said, "I think the light bulb's going bad." I'm like, "No. That's the socket. We've got to change the socket." She's like, "Okay. Whatever."
Maria Varmazis: The whole circuit needs to go.
Joe Carrigan: Right. Yeah.
Maria Varmazis: The whole circuit. You've just got to start - get the Romix out. Just --
Dave Bittner: Two weeks later Joe has gone through the certified electrician class and --
Maria Varmazis: I'm just a journeyman, but you know before we start.
Joe Carrigan: Yes. I'm moonlighting now.
Dave Bittner: Yeah.
Joe Carrigan: Making money in my spare time.
Dave Bittner: All right. Let's get to the rest of our --
Joe Carrigan: Yeah. So --
Dave Bittner: Follow up here.
Maria Varmazis: I'll take the fan wiki, you know.
Joe Carrigan: Writes in writing about my bellyaching from I think it was the July 3rd episode. In fact no. It is. He says that here. Greetings from Lithuania. This is from Lithuania. Thank you for listening. On the July 3rd episode Dave mentioned -- this was actually me that mentioned getting a legitimate vanguard email from -- with an unfamiliar domain. "I'd like to share an insight. Companies often use alternative domains from marketing emails because these tend to get reported as spam. It's the way to keep their main domain safe from reputation damage or black listing. So in a way reporting it as spam is exactly how the system's expected to work and Joe did the right thing. Of course sometimes companies get too comfortable with these alternative domains and start using them for more important emails which is what I think is happening here. Thought your listeners might find this nuance interesting." Well, I certainly do. Thank you for writing in. I would agree. That's probably exactly what's going on here.
Dave Bittner: Yeah. Did I ever tell you about I had a neighbor when I was a little kid who was a Lithuanian supermodel?
Joe Carrigan: No. Was he a -- was it a male model or female?
Dave Bittner: No. This was a woman. So when I grew up, you know, middle class suburban household and down the street was a Lithuanian family. And they had two kids. And Diva [assumed spelling] and Darius. And Diva I think was maybe two years older than me and Darius was a year younger. So we would go down and play and, you know, climb their trees. And I remember they had a plum tree in their front yard and the plums would, you know -- delicious.
Joe Carrigan: You could eat them.
Dave Bittner: Yeah. Yeah. And they had a -- it was a great climbing tree also, but they had a pool so we would go and swim in their pool and, you know, all that kind of stuff. But, you know, their parents were first generation immigrants. So, you know, a little nerdy, didn't have all the right clothes, didn't have all the right things, you know, all that kind of stuff. So they got a little, you know, heat in school for those kind of things. But I always had a good time with them and they were good neighbors. So time passes. I am now a college student and I'm sitting in the dining hall and there is some like magazine like you know "College Monthly" or you know one of those things they give away at the dining hall. And on the cover of the dining hall is this drop dead gorgeous woman. That's my neighbor.
Joe Carrigan: Was it Diva?
Dave Bittner: It was Diva. And I'm saying to the table full of also college aged guys, "Oh, my gosh. It's my neighbor Diva. I used to swim in her pool." And they're all like, "Nah. BS. Uh huh. Sure thing." Sure. Like no. No. That's Diva you know. Yeah.
Joe Carrigan: That's awesome.
Dave Bittner: Much later I reconnected with Diva on Facebook and I shared that story and she thought it was very funny.
Joe Carrigan: Very funny. Excellent.
Dave Bittner: Strikingly beautiful woman. Let's get to our stories. Joe, why don't you start things off for us?
Joe Carrigan: My story comes from the "Hollywood Reporter."
Maria Varmazis: Okay. Your usual source.
Joe Carrigan: Yeah. My -- right. The -- that's my go to source for news, Dave.
Dave Bittner: Of course.
Maria Varmazis: That's right.
Joe Carrigan: But this was from Rebecca Keegan and the headline of this is, "This is not Keanu. Inside the Billion Dollar Celebrity Impersonation Bitcoin Scam." So it talks about people getting impersonated, these celebrities getting impersonated. And it starts off with a story about this woman named Margaret who is 73 years old. She spent months making weekly Bitcoin deposits to somebody she believed was Kevin Costner. They also talk about Keanu Reeves in here. She left her husband of 10 years for a meet up. I don't know if she left her -- left him permanently, but she was going to meet Kevin Costner in a hotel. And she got a text after she was there waiting for him that said, "Oh, I've been in a terrible car accident. I can't make it." And with a picture of a banged up car. So, you know, this is typical of all these different kinds of scams. What's -- there's a couple interesting things in this article that I wanted to call out. Number one. For celebrities this is a nightmare. And I don't mean to take celebrities and say, "Oh, your life is so hard." But, you know, and I do have some empathy for them even though they're successful. Everybody has the right to be successful. So I'm not --
Maria Varmazis: Well, I mean they're human beings. Can you imagine a scam being done in your name that, you know, you obviously don't want to happen? And they're just they're besmirching your good name. But also, you know, like really harming people that think it's you. I mean they're humans.
Joe Carrigan: Really hurting people and they're doing it as you. And that would -- if I was -- if anybody did that to me I'd be furious. I mean with the -- what are we, D list celebrities? I'm probably a D list celebrity. Dave might be a C list celebrity.
Dave Bittner: That's being very generous.
Joe Carrigan: Well, there's only -- there's only -- there's only five -- four levels of celebrity.
Dave Bittner: Oh. Is that right?
Joe Carrigan: Right. And everybody's at least an F list. Everybody.
Dave Bittner: Well, Joe, if there's a list I'd put you on it would be the F list.
Joe Carrigan: Right. Well, we have to be higher than the F list.
Maria Varmazis: Just no. Just think about what you're saying. Just think about it. Okay. Let's move on.
Joe Carrigan: I'm on Dave's F list, Maria. So let's get back to these A list celebrities.
Dave Bittner: And not in a fun way.
Joe Carrigan: Right. This turns in to a game of Whack a Mole where these people try to hire companies that take these fake profiles down and there are some 400 employer -- performers rather including ScoJo, Scarlett Johansson. And --
Dave Bittner: Is that how you refer to her when you're texting back and forth?
Joe Carrigan: Right. Yeah.
Dave Bittner: Oh. Hey, ScoJo. It's JoCo.
Joe Carrigan: Right.
Maria Varmazis: What haps?
Joe Carrigan: If we're going to turn her A in to an O, I have to do it to mine too. Right?
Joe Bittner: Yeah.
Joe Carrigan: Anyway also Fran Drescher who is the president of SAG-AFTRA which I think I did know that, that she was president.
Dave Bittner: Yeah. I met her once.
Joe Carrigan: Oh, did you?
Dave Bittner: Very nice woman.
Joe Carrigan: Very nice?
Dave Bittner: Yeah. Very nice.
Joe Carrigan: I thought she was funny on "The Nanny."
Dave Bittner: Yeah. She was. Yeah.
Joe Carrigan: But, you know, they're working on this act going through Congress called the No Fakes Act which seeks to create protections for artists' voices, likeness, and images from unauthorized AI generated deep fakes. We already have the Take It Down Act as for -- Maria, you and I talked about this a couple weeks ago. Protecting people from revenge porn. And fake porn. But this is -- this is specifically for artists and their likeness and I imagine it's going to have a much broader application than just work. Right? Like they, you know -- I understand that the union SAG-AFTRA is the actor's union. Right? The Screen Actors Guild. And they're protecting their members' interests and likenesses because they don't want people saying something like, "Oh, well we don't have to hire Keanu Reeves. We can just use Keanu Reeves as a -- we can just make a model of Keanu Reeves and use that." You know, that -- you can't do that. And I don't think you should be able to do that. You know, you're using someone's likeness. But this also has applications in this case here where people who are famous are getting impersonated. Now I don't think this bill should just be focused at performers, actors and artists. I think maybe it should be focused on anybody, maybe just the general population. If someone is using your likeness to promote something. Because think about -- think about athletes. Right? This would apply to them too. What about, I don't know, world famous podcast stars? That might -- that might -- you know, Dave Bittner doesn't want his --
Dave Bittner: It really is a burden, Joe.
Joe Carrigan: It is. I've heard you be called podcast royalty on more than one podcast.
Dave Bittner: Those are all my podcasts, but yes.
Joe Carrigan: Actually on other peoples' podcasts.
Dave Bittner: It's what I wrote for my own description on our CyberWire website. I wrote it. It says, "Dave Bittner, cyber podcast royalty."
Joe Carrigan: Right.
Dave Bittner: Here's my question, Joe.
Joe Carrigan: Yes.
Dave Bittner: What difference is it going to make if they pass this legislation? Because these people are coming from overseas.
Joe Carrigan: Right.
Dave Bittner: Right? Like there's no long arm of the -- like it's already illegal to commit fraud.
Joe Carrigan: It is.
Dave Bittner: So how do they expect something like this to make a dent in this sort of fraud? Unless the liability could be extended to the people who are helping facilitate this.
Joe Carrigan: I think that might be the only benefit is maybe this law -- I haven't looked at this law yet. I've got to look at it. But maybe this law has some benefits that would -- or some teeth in it for people like Facebook or Tik Tok or --
Dave Bittner: Right.
Joe Carrigan: You know, some kind of -- all the social media platforms where this happens. They're the vehicle by which this happens.
Dave Bittner: Yeah.
Joe Carrigan: So Rebecca Keegan actually started a fake Facebook account to see how this happens. She made a fake social media profile. I'm assuming it was Facebook actually. She used AI to age up some of her selfies and invented a beloved dead husband named Bob. And she had a little terrier named Milo and put this out there. She said within 90 minutes of opening this account an account named Keanu Reeves 68667 was sliding in to the DMs. Right? And wanting to know how long she'd been a fan. And her response is since "Speed." I'm like that's not really a true Keanu Reeves fan. If you're a fan of Keanu Reeves you've been a fan since the first "Bill and Ted" movie.
Dave Bittner: Okay.
Maria Varmazis: Obviously.
Joe Carrigan: That's when I became a fan of Keanu Reeves. I thought he was very good in that.
Maria Varmazis: Watch out in your DMs. You never know.
Joe Carrigan: Within two hours four more Keanus had slid in to her DMs and two Kevin Costners, a Charlie Hunnam or Hunnam. H-U-N-N-A-M. I don't know who that is. And then Jonathan Roumie who is the actor that plays Jesus on a Christian television show called "The Chosen" which I think is on Amazon Prime.
Dave Bittner: Okay.
Joe Carrigan: So she goes on to talk about what happened once she started interacting with these guys. And, you know, I've already run a little bit long here going in to the -- but take a look at the article. It's on the "Hollywood Reporter." It's not pay walled. It's pretty good. I find it fascinating how quickly these guys were on top of her.
Dave Bittner: Yeah.
Maria Varmazis: Oh yeah.
Joe Carrigan: 90 minutes of creating a profile somebody was out there. Meanwhile I put that post out on Facebook and a week goes by and nothing has happened.
Maria Varmazis: You just maybe your profile needs more info because you know who I get the celebrity spam from all the time on my Instagram like in the DMs are a gagillion Elon Musk impersonators.
Joe Carrigan: Really?
Maria Varmazis: That is the only one I get, but it's pretty much every day I get three to five of these. And it's just back when I was on Twitter or X or whatever you want to call it same thing. It was like this person is a space nerd. Let me target them with the Elon impersonation. It's wild.
Joe Carrigan: You know what happens to my wife is she gets hit by the fake profile of just the average guy or the military officer.
Dave Bittner: Yes.
Joe Carrigan: That's what happens to Lisa.
Dave Bittner: Yeah. My wife gets those. My sister gets those. I get the ones -- I don't get any celebrity ones, but I get the ones of mostly young Asian women.
Joe Carrigan: Yeah. Yeah. I actually haven't gotten one of those in a long time. Last time I got one was actually via text believe it or not.
Dave Bittner: Yeah. These come in via -- but they're usually Facebook friend requests.
Joe Carrigan: Right. I don't -- you know what? I think I had my Facebook so locked down that I don't think anybody can send a friend request unless they're a friend of a friend. So that's a good way to limit yourself there.
Dave Bittner: Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well we will have a link to that story in the show notes. Maria, it's your turn. What do you got for us this week?
Maria Varmazis: Well, talking about laws and potential legislation to try and protect people, here's one that's not happening.
Joe Carrigan: Good news, everyone.
Maria Varmazis: Good news. It's not happening. And it really makes me angry to be honest with you. So I don't know -- I want to make sure that our American listeners know about this. So here it is. The new click to cancel rule from the FTC which was meant to make canceling subscriptions as easy as signing up has been blocked by a federal appeals court just days before it was set to take effect. So if you were like me you thought it was already pretty much a done deal. No. The rule which was sort of in works since last October would have required companies to get clear consent for charging for auto renewals, memberships, or free trial conversions, disclose when the free trials end, and offer simple no hassle cancellation. And certainly we've talked about -- Dave, you've mentioned it about how a lot of these there's some scammy apps that try to take advantage of the fact that these subscriptions just keep running or the free trial keeps going and then they start charging you and they just rely on the fact that you don't notice. So the FTC adopted this rule again last October and it had plans to start enforcing it Monday July 14th. And then on July 9th the 8th circuit court of appeals vacated the rule saying that the FTC skipped a required step of a preliminary regulatory analysis for rules with more than $100 million in economic impact. Some reversion is the FTC was like this won't cause more than $100 million in economic impact. And some judge said "We disagree." And as a result this rule is no longer going to happen. It's literally a paperwork error is the reason that we are not getting this. And the court said in their ruling, "While we certainly do not endorse the use of unfair and deceptive practices in negative option marketing, the procedural deficiencies of the commission's rule making process are fatal here." So this is why we can't have nice things in America. I don't know what to say. It makes me so angry. Like all of our listeners from around the world are like, "That is bonkers." And I completely agree with you. This is such an easy no brainer and we can't even have this.
Dave Bittner: Who would be against this?
Joe Carrigan: Here's how you do it. Here's how you do it. If you have a credit card that will let you make like token credit card numbers, you know like temporary credit card numbers, to sign up for something, do that. And then when they -- when you don't want to use it anymore, delete the number. Cancel the number. It's gone.
Maria Varmazis: Joe, that's a lot of work. It shouldn't be that much work.
Joe Carrigan: No. You're right.
Maria Varmazis: It should just --
Joe Carrigan: You're right. But you know what, Maria? It'll really, really, really irritate the people that were behind this court case stopping it from happening, the people that were behind -- the plaintiffs in this case. It will really irritate that organization. Just --
Maria Varmazis: Yeah. Let's -- yeah. It's great. Like let's do something about it. I just I'm in the should land of this shouldn't be this hard. We should have this. This is a no brainer. I cannot believe we can't even get something this easy to happen. Why? So yeah. That's just me.
Dave Bittner: So do we know how this came to the attention of the eighth circuit? Was -- because I think in general when the current administration came in they were -- they were adversarial with the FTC just sort of as a matter of political principle. So do we suspect that someone in the administration or maybe I guess someone who has an interest in this brought it to the eighth circuit's attention?
Maria Varmazis: I would imagine that would be the case. Potentially the administrative law judge that said, "Actually the economic impact is over $1 million" because companies will have to make it easy to unsubscribe or the burgeoning third party market of auto unsubscribe apps will hurt. I don't know. I mean somebody clearly challenged this. What the next step is here your guess is as good as mine, but this was a Biden era thing from Biden FTC. I don't see the Trump administration trying it. But who knows? I'd be happy to be surprised.
Dave Bittner: Right. Right. So even the idea that the FTC would go back and try to do it again, this time doing the step that it's claimed they did not do, the odds of that happening under this administration are slim because presumably President Trump has put someone else in charge of the FTC. Yeah.
Maria Varmazis: Yeah. I mean again it could happen. I don't know. This just went down a few days ago. So I'm going to keep an eye on what the FTC will do. I'm hoping this is not the last of this effort because again it's such a simple win. I cannot imagine any American consumer being like, "Oh, I don't want that." I mean this is a nuisance problem. It's sort of like robo callers which also a scourge we have not been able to get rid of in the United States. So it's like there's all these little modern annoyances that it's like, "Can we just do something about it?" And let's not give up on trying. Okay. I'll stop now. I'll stop ranting. I just wanted people to know that it's not happening because this is sort of just a last minute thing.
Dave Bittner: No. There was a lot of celebration over this and I remember the stories about I think it was either the "New York Times" or the "Washington Post" had some system in place where you could subscribe to the newspaper online, but if you wanted to cancel you had to call and talk to a real --
Joe Carrigan: That was the "Wall Street Journal." I know that for sure.
Dave Bittner: Okay. There you go. So --
Joe Carrigan: I actually had to cancel a credit card to get them to stop charging me.
Dave Bittner: So there you go.
Maria Varmazis: Yeah. Yep.
Dave Bittner: You know, just the disproportionality of the effort for one versus the other, just it's just not fair.
Joe Carrigan: At the time I was still working at Hopkins and was entitled to a free subscription. So that's why --
Maria Varmazis: My tip for a lot of people was to change your address to somewhere in California. And then try to cancel. This was back when I -- Oh. I'm still a "Boston Globe" subscriber, but I was trying to cancel it years ago and it wouldn't let you one click unsubscribe. You had to make a phone call and go through the whole hard sell. However if you were based in California because of that state's laws they had a one click unsubscribe button that would like magically appear.
Dave Bittner: Wow.
Maria Varmazis: So I would literally change my address to 90210 because I'm a 90s kid and then magically I could just one click unsubscribe and it was just like --
Joe Carrigan: Well, that seems like a lot easier than setting up a fake credit card number. Or a temporary or a --
Maria Varmazis: You know, but I'm thinking of things like apps and you know streaming services is another one. Like all these things that we sign up for just for maybe a little stint and they just do not want you to cancel.
Joe Carrigan: HBO got me recently. I was going to cancel HBO Max and then they said -- because there's nothing on there I'm watching anymore although I will miss my Bugs Bunny cartoons, but I canceled it and when I went to cancel they go, "Hey, we can give you this service for $8 a month." I'm like I'd pay $8 a month. So I did that and last night I got a text message going, "Hey, HBO charged you $19 again." So apparently my 3 months of $8 a month is up.
Dave Bittner: There you go.
Joe Carrigan: Yep.
Dave Bittner: Yeah.
Maria Varmazis: There you go. They got you.
Dave Bittner: That's how they get you.
Joe Carrigan: That's how they get me.
Maria Varmazis: That's how they get you.
Joe Carrigan: At least for one more month. I'm going to try to unsubscribe now.
Dave Bittner: All right. I'll tell you what. Let's take a quick break to hear from our sponsor. We will be right back. [ Music ] And we are back. My story this week is actually from the Reddit scams group. And this is a new one that I had not seen before. This is someone took a screenshot of a text message that they had received and the text message is two things. There is some text and then there's an image and the image is of a car. In this case it's a Kia. And it's parked in front of a sign that says triple X girls strip club. XXX.
Joe Carrigan: Yep.
Dave Bittner: And the text says, "Hello. I want to play a game. You've been a bad little boy. Nobody has to see this picture. It would be a shame if it was sent to you know who. Send $1,000 by midnight tonight and it will go away quietly and you'll never hear from us again." Now the interesting thing about this is that the car in the image has the person's correct license plate number on it.
Joe Carrigan: There has been a data breach somewhere.
Maria Varmazis: Yeah.
Joe Carrigan: There is some way to access this data that we don't know about. I mean we, the three of us, don't know about.
Dave Bittner: So yeah. So that's what caught my eye about this. That's what sort of set it apart is that they're using license plate data which is readily accessible. And you, any of us, can go out and buy very cheaply a database of license plates.
Joe Carrigan: Well I was wrong.
Dave Bittner: Because -- well, license plate readers are out there. I mean there's private companies. You're driving around. You're getting your license plate sucked up by license plate readers. And it's fair game. So what I wondered was how easy would it be for me to recreate this. So what I did was I went and I did a search for license plate -- mail in license plate database. And I went to a website called look up a plate dot com. And I actually put my son's license plate number in. And it came back and it told me the make and model and year of the car he owns.
Joe Carrigan: Really?
Dave Bittner: Yeah. Did not tell me the color, but that's okay. But it gave me the make and model, actually made a graphic of his license plate number with a Maryland license plate. So that would be easy to copy and paste out of this website. So then actually let me back up a step because the first thing I did was I went over to Chat GPT and I said, "What can you tell me about the vehicle that has this license plate number?" And I put in the license plate number of my son's car. And it came back and said, "I cannot give you any information about license plate numbers." And I said, "Okay. Good. Good for you, Chat GPT."
Joe Carrigan: Yeah. It has guard rails.
Dave Bittner: Yeah. So then after going to the website that looks up your license plate and tells you more about your car I went to Chat GPT and I said, "Create an image." And I told it information about my car. I gave it my license plate number. And I said, "And put it in front of a strip club at night." And that's the image that I pasted here in the show notes. You see the dark blue car.
Maria Varmazis: Oh dang. Yeah.
Dave Bittner: That's my car.
Maria Varmazis: Wow.
Dave Bittner: With my license plate, Maryland license plate. That is -- that is my license plate. And it's parked out in front of the strip club. Right? So easy to do relatively speaking. You have it's easy to get a license plate database. Those databases regularly include the license plate, the make and model and color of the car, where the car was seen. And you could imagine automating that to take all that information, create a really easy description to plug in to one of the large language models and just spit out images of cars in front of places where people don't want their cars to be seen. Right? And you create a photo realistic image like this one that I created of my car out front of the strip club. And you can see how this could work with somebody. Right? The message is vague. It says -- what I like about it from a manipulative sense is it says it would be a shame if it was sent to you know who.
Joe Carrigan: Right.
Dave Bittner: And --
Maria Varmazis: So you fill in those blanks.
Dave Bittner: Right. You fill. And everyone has a you know who they could fill in. Oh gosh, you know. Is it your --
Maria Varmazis: Joke's on you. I know nobody.
Joe Carrigan: Right?
Dave Bittner: I'm a shut in. I have no friends nor family. No one loves me which is why I spend so much time at the strip club. Yeah.
Maria Varmazis: At a strip club. Exactly. For me the flaw is I've never heard of a strip club called just strip club. They always have amazing names. So I'd be like come on.
Dave Bittner: That's true. That's true. Yeah. Yeah.
Maria Varmazis: Just strip club. Come on. No. No, but the point stands though. This is a pretty interesting image and I'm sure if they put a golden banana in instead of something else like it would be -- there are some really funny named strip clubs. I kind of love the names. So yeah. If you put something like that in maybe it'll be a little more convincing. But I could see somebody panicking over this and making a bad decision under pressure.
Dave Bittner: Right.
Joe Carrigan: Yep.
Dave Bittner: Exactly. And it's just a numbers game.
Maria Varmazis: Although -- it is. That's true, although I think the way to thwart this one at least temporarily is if your car has a very interesting bumper sticker. They won't know that.
Joe Carrigan: Right.
Dave Bittner: Yeah. >> Or like have your bumper be really messed up and don't get it repaired because these cars all look pristine. My car looks like garbage [laughs]. So I'd be like that's not my car.
Joe Carrigan: That's not my mess.
Maria Varmazis: I can tell that's not my car.
Joe Carrigan: My car also looks like that. Cracked windshield.
Dave Bittner: Yeah.
Maria Varmazis: Mine's in what they call city condition. So yeah. It doesn't look like that.
Dave Bittner: I see. Right. Right. No one's going to try to steal your car or your -- well, I guess your car doesn't have a catalytic converter, does it, because you have an electric car.
Maria Varmazis: I do have an electric. I have a -- I have a non -- I have a gas car and I have an electric car, but both of them are in horrendous condition. Car people hate me. It's true.
Dave Bittner: Yeah.
Joe Carrigan: It's a vehicle. It gets you from point A to point B. It's not a prestige symbol. This is how I feel about cars. I think Maria feels the same way.
Maria Varmazis: I also live in Massachusetts where trying to keep a nice condition car is just there's no point. They just everything needs to look like it's gone through battle because it has. So.
Dave Bittner: I like to have my car look nice most of the time. I keep it washed and clean inside and that kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah.
Maria Varmazis: No. Mine's a garbage heap so yeah.
Dave Bittner: I just I mean I'm not crazy about it. Like I don't -- if my car gets a ding or a scrape or something like that I don't lose sleep over it. But at the same time I do like to -- it makes me happy when I walk out to the parking lot and I see a nice clean well taken care of car. So you know what I think it is? I think it's that that is something in my life that I am able to control.
Joe Carrigan: It's the one thing.
Maria Varmazis: Fair enough.
Dave Bittner: Right?
Joe Carrigan: Right.
Dave Bittner: Like because you know I share my house with other people.
Maria Varmazis: Of certain ages.
Dave Bittner: Yeah. So.
Maria Varmazis: Yeah. Well, on the side of my car when my daughter was a toddler she -- I don't -- unbeknownst to me grabbed one of my car keys and decided she wanted to make some art on the side of my car. And she turned to me and goes, "Mommy, I drew a mountain." So there's a nice mountain scratched in to the side of my car. She keyed my own car. And I was like I'm keeping that.
Dave Bittner: What a scamp.
Joe Carrigan: Yeah.
Dave Bittner: Oh. That's funny.
Joe Carrigan: Yeah. My son did that with a bike -- the handle of a -- handlebar of a bike to my wife's car. My wife's last car I think. Just rode. We had the car for like less than a month and he rode the bike down the side of it and just gouged the paint.
Maria Varmazis: Yeah.
Joe Carrigan: Can't have anything nice.
Dave Bittner: No. No.
Maria Varmazis: Yeah. No.
Dave Bittner: Neighbors, have you met my idiot son?
Joe Carrigan: Right.
Maria Varmazis: My very first car when I was living, you know, post graduate, post college, I had both side mirrors the housing had been broken off because heaven knows I probably hit all sorts of things. And then my apartment had a very, very narrow driveway with a chain link fence that was really hard to navigate in the winter when the snow would build up. So the entire left side of my car was just gouged with chain link fence. Like the entire side. So I had no side mirrors and the entire side was gouged chain link fence. And then I think I had a half a bumper on the back. Nobody messed with me on the road because I just -- my car just basically said, "I don't care."
Joe Carrigan: Everybody lets you merge.
Dave Bittner: Yeah. I'm imagining --
Maria Varmazis: People would let me in every time.
Dave Bittner: Right. Because you don't care. I'm imagining you getting pulled over like the guys in, "Planes, Trains, and Automobiles." You know.
Joe Carrigan: Right.
Dave Bittner: Car's completely destroyed. Ma'am do you believe that this car is safe to drive? Yes, officer. Yes. I do. Yes. I do.
Maria Varmazis: [Laughs] it was a Corolla.
Dave Bittner: All right. Well, we will not have a link to that in the show notes because there's no link to be had, but -- actually, you know what? There is a link to be had. Well, I'll put a link. I'll have a link to that thing over on Reddit to put in the show notes. So I stand corrected. I correct myself. There will be a link to that in the show notes so you can see the image. All right. Joe, Maria, it is time to move on to our catch of the day. [ Soundbite of reeling in fishing line ] [ Music ]
Joe Carrigan: Dave, like your story our catch of the day also comes from the scams subreddit. It's an email. Just a simple email.
Dave Bittner: Okay. It reads like this.
Joe Carrigan: All right.
Dave Bittner: It says "Reply. Urgent inquiry. Please let me know." And then anybody have a guess what language this is in?
Joe Carrigan: That's Arabic.
Dave Bittner: That's Arabic. Thank you very much. All right. And it says, "Hello and good morning. My name is Ms. Please. I will like you to help me claim and invest 30 kilograms of diamonds and 600 kilograms of pure gold which runs in to hundreds of millions of U.S D that is in your country. Please. It will not cost you any money or your time and it is 100% legal. I am contacting you because of my inability to travel now. Please for more details consigning this please write me back directly at my private email. Thank you. Ms."
Joe Carrigan: Right. Yep. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please.
Maria Varmazis: Please. Please.
Dave Bittner: Yeah. Also one big run on sentence.
Joe Carrigan: Right.
Dave Bittner: Lots of capitalized words. It's a mess.
Joe Carrigan: U.S D where U.S has -- U and S have periods after it, but D does not. And usually when you see --
Maria Varmazis: It's 100% legal.
Joe Carrigan: Right. 100% legal. There you go. So won't worry about it. We got you covered.
Dave Bittner: So here's a question. What do you think is more valuable, 30 kilograms of diamonds or 600 kilograms of gold?
Maria Varmazis: Oh. That's going to depend on the day. Wouldn't it?
Joe Carrigan: It depends on the grade of the diamonds and I would guess that as a seller, you know as a seller of these things, the gold is more valuable. That would be my guess just thinking about it here.
Dave Bittner: All right.
Maria Varmazis: Is it Costco gold bars? Now that I know that you can buy gold bars at Costco. Thank you listeners who all wrote in and let me know that. My husband was really happy because he loves Costco.
Joe Carrigan: Right. What's not to love?
Dave Bittner: Yeah.
Joe Carrigan: I love that place. $1.50 hot dog is my favorite thing. You heard the story about that?
Maria Varmazis: So the pedantic answer to your question, Dave, is not enough information to answer.
Joe Carrigan: Right.
Dave Bittner: Well, I went over to Chat GPT and I got the answer.
Joe Carrigan: Okay.
Dave Bittner: All right.
Maria Varmazis: Okay.
Dave Bittner: So it says let's calculate approximate market value for both. 1 carat equals 0.2 grams for diamonds. So 30 kilograms would be 30,000 grams which is 150,000 carats. Diamond prices vary wildly based on cut, clarity, and size. Industrial diamond is cheap, but gem quality large diamonds can average 2,000 to $16,000 per carat or far more. And even $5,000 per carat which is a moderate gem grade average 150,000 carats would be 750 million U.S dollars. Gold. 1 kilogram equals 32.15 troy ounces. 600 kilograms equals 19,290 troy ounces. At $2,400 per ounce which is the July 2025 market rate that is 46.3 million U.S dollars. So it says 30 kilograms of gem quality diamonds is vastly more valuable than 600 kilograms of gold.
Joe Carrigan: I was wrong. Again.
Maria Varmazis: Wow.
Dave Bittner: So we should reply and say we'll keep the diamonds, but -- we'll take the diamonds, but you can keep your gold.
Joe Carrigan: Your worthless gold.
Maria Varmazis: Stinking gold.
Dave Bittner: Right. Right.
Maria Varmazis: Who wants it?
Dave Bittner: Your dirty precious metal. Yeah.
Joe Carrigan: Just email me about in the mail. Just send me physically in the mail about 15 carats of diamonds to prove that you have these diamonds.
Dave Bittner: Oh. There you go. See? Turning it around on them.
Joe Carrigan: Right.
Dave Bittner: I'm asking how big a bag would 30 kilograms --
Maria Varmazis: Chat GPT would never lie.
Dave Bittner: Diamonds be. Oh no. This is absolutely 100% accurate.
Joe Carrigan: Right.
Maria Varmazis: Yep.
Dave Bittner: Great question.
Joe Carrigan: Why are you saying that? Just answer the question.
Dave Bittner: Yeah. 30 kilograms of diamond is surprisingly compact. Unlike gold which is denser but bulkier for similar value. So your priceless diamond horde would only need a bag you could comfortably carry on your shoulder. There you go. All right.
Maria Varmazis: All right.
Dave Bittner: So I'm imagining somebody with one of those little black masks and a black and white striped shirt and a beret.
Joe Carrigan: Right.
Dave Bittner: With a sack.
Joe Carrigan: Over their shoulder.
Dave Bittner: That has a little diamond symbol printed on to the sack. Sneaking around.
Joe Carrigan: I've talked in the past about how my wife and son are both diamond people or gemstone people.
Dave Bittner: Okay.
Joe Carrigan: And every time you see somebody do a smash and grab at a jewelry store where they're throwing piles of diamonds in to a bag my wife cringes. She says, "You shouldn't do that with all those diamonds because they will scratch each other."
Dave Bittner: Okay.
Joe Carrigan: That's what makes her angry about it.
Dave Bittner: Okay. Yeah. Whereas the gold just melt it down.
Joe Carrigan: Yeah. Yeah. Just melt it back down.
Dave Bittner: Who cares?
Joe Carrigan: Yeah. Gold's much more fungible than diamonds.
Dave Bittner: Yeah. Interesting.
Maria Varmazis: Fungible.
Dave Bittner: It can be melted in to fun shapes.
Maria Varmazis: Good word.
Dave Bittner: Yeah. All right. Well, that is our catch of the day. And of course if there's something you'd like us to consider for the show please email us. It's hackinghumans@n2k.com. [ Music ] And that is our show brought to you by N2K CyberWire. We would love to hear from you. We are conducting our annual audience survey through the end of August. There is a link in the show notes. Please do check it out. This episode is produced by Liz Stokes. Our executive producer is Jennifer Eiben. We're mixed by Elliott Peltzman and Tre Hester. Peter Kilpe is our publisher. I'm Dave Bittner.
Joe Carrigan: I'm Joe Carrigan.
Maria Varmazis: And I'm Maria Varmazis.
Dave Bittner: Thanks for listening. [ Music ]
