Podcasts
SpyCast
Ep 581
SpyCast 4.4.23
Ep 581 | 4.4.23

“Indian Intelligence & Cyber” – A Conversation with Sameer Patil, ORF Mumbai

Show Notes

Summary

Sameer Patil (Twitter; Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss intelligence and cybersecurity in the world’s most populous nation. He formerly worked in the NSC Secretariat in the Prime Minister’s Office in New Delhi.  


What You’ll Learn

Intelligence

  • Cybersecurity in the world’s largest democracy
  • The breakdown of India’s intelligence agencies
  • Cybersecurity among the world’s second largest internet user base
  • India’s relationships with China and Pakistan

Reflections

  • Imperial legacies
  • Borders of the mind

Episode Notes

You know about the covert action using a Trojan Horse described in The Odyssey by Homer and The Aeneid by Virgil; you may even know about Sun Tzu’s chapter on “The Use of Spies” in the Art of War; but do you know that the Ancient Indian Sanskrit text Arthashastra is littered with references to espionage and intelligence – from recruitment to cover identities, through to seduction for secrets and disinformation. 

This week’s SpyCast dovetails into the long and venerable history of intelligence in South Asia, by bringing it smack bang up to date, with a discussion on cyber with Sameer Patil.

And…

The origins of the phrase “Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai” are revealed in this episode...my, how times have changed…

Guest Bio

Sameer Patil is a senior fellow at the Observer Research Foundation, India’s premier think tank, and a top twenty think tank outside of the United States, he is an expert on the intersection between cybersecurity, counterterrorism, and national security. Previously, he served as the Assistant Director of the National Security Council Secretariat at the Prime Minister’s Office in New Delhi. He has a PhD in International Relations from Jawaharlal Nehru University in New Delhi, and is the author of the 2022 book Securing India in the Cyber Era, and is his work has been cited in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Financial Times, The Wall Street Journal, and many other news agencies.

Quote of the Week

"So, it's a very unique relationship because if you see both the countries, uh, in a sense emerged as modern nation states at around the same time. India attended independence in 1947 the Chinese Communist party emerged victory years from a protracted civil war. In 1949 and. Initial periods of both the countries, as modern nation states were very cordial relationship, very friendly relationship in fact, we had a very populous slogan at that time, which is known as “Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai,” which means India, China, Brothers - Indians and Chinese are brothers together. But by the late 1950s, many of the issues started to unravel." – Sameer Patel.

Resources 

SURFACE SKIM

*SpyCasts*

Beginner Resources

DEEPER DIVE

*Featured Resource*

  • Securing India in the Cyber Era, S. Patil (Routledge, 2022)

Books

  • JFK’s Forgotten Crisis: Tibet, the CIA and the Sino-Indian War, B. Riedel (BIP, 2015)
  • Intelligence Elsewhere, P. Davies & K. Gustafson (GUP, 2013)
  • India’s External Intelligence, V.K. Singh (ManasPub, 2007)

Articles

*Wildcard Resource(s)*

SpyCast
Podcast Info
HOST(S):
Andrew Hammond
Erin Dietrick
Andrew Hammond, Ph.D. is Historian & Curator at the International Spy Museum, home of the world's preeminent collection of intelligence-related artifacts. Previous chapters have included seven years in the RAF, Public Humanities at the 9/11 Museum in NYC, Fellowships here, there, and everywhere, and academia. He is author of the forthcoming book: "Struggles for Freedom": Afghanistan & US Foreign Policy Since 1979. He loves bialys.
Erin Dietrick is the Programs & Podcast Assistant at the International Spy Museum. Erin is a Cleveland native and graduate of the University of Rochester in Rochester, NY, where she studied history. Currently gaining her MA in Museum Studies from the George Washington University, Erin is passionate about storytelling, inspiring critical thinking, and inciting joy through museum programming. She has a special place in her heart for music history and named her orange cat Ringo after Ringo Starr.
Schedule: Tuesdays, 7am EST (weekly)
Credits: SPY: Mike Mincey and Memphis Vaughn III, Co-Producers; Emily Rens and Emily Coletta, Graphics; Afua Anokwa and Ariel Samuel, Social Media; Erin Dietrick, Researcher, Scheduler, Editor, Co-Producer, Social Media; Andrew Hammond, Writer, Editor-in-Chief, Executive Producer. CYBERWIRE: Elliott Peltzman, Sound Design; Elliott Peltzman and Tré Hester, mixing; Jen Eiben, Co-producer, Social Media; SpyCast opening music: Wayne Jones, “Cypher” (2018).
Creator: International Spy Museum
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